Show 039 – 2×03: Second Thoughts

Everyone’s having second thoughts! Alec’s not too sure about his new business partnership, Sonya’s doubting her latest takeover strategy, and many Vancouverites are experiencing “thoughts” a “second” time through the new street drug, flash. Mike & Dave discuss the possible paths for Liber8, what Alec’s memories imply, and what on earth Jason is up to. Plus nitpicks, predictions, and, of course, plenty of your fan feedback.

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  • Margarita Mechta

    IMHO Alex has to find a way to hear himself from the future. At present we don’t understand, what purpose is pursued by “old” Alec.What does he want to transfer to our present time?Perhaps he realized the destructiveness of monopoly and he expects radical action from the Liber8. But in this case – what is the mission for Kira? Probably Alec decided to correct the future a little and Kira has to help him, because she is a law-abiding and “old” Alec trusts her. Finally Alec is the genius and he has to collect all puzzles of the future in a uniform chain of events

    • Continuum Podcast

      You present an interesting point: if Alec is supposed to avoid becoming a despot, what is Kiera’s role in that? That is, why did Alec send her back? Surely it wasn’t just as a vessel in which to hide the message! But on the other hand, she seems to be working against him instead of with him… for now anyway. Something tells me the purpose of Kiera’s presence in the past will be a well-kept secret for a majority of the series.

  • Forge Dias

    The beginning reminded me a lot of Bladerunner with the VTOL’s running about in the city. The vehicle at the bottom looked like it was skimming over water because of the reflection at the bottom. So maybe parts of Vancouver are under water and that is why we had that tent city on the roof.
    What Continuum does great is that when they bring a character in or have a plot line, you know as the viewer that they will revisit it sometime in the next few episodes. Like the Mayor candidate that Sonja bribed, having him show up again in the first episode, the crazy guy Jason this episode, they could of easily allowed Jason to be dropped because he showed up in the last episode and we found out he already completely lost it, but every character has a defined role in the Continuum universe and your point about the girl that Alec was looking at will probably more then likely play a factor in the future.
    So as a viewer one has to be very careful about dismissing anything we either learn or see because invariably the show will come back to that plotline or character. They are really good at managing a layered story with multiple plotlines interwoven in between.

    • Continuum Podcast

      Very well put! They definitely have not wasted opportunities with characters. Although I do wish Wolford had stuck around a bit – I liked him. But I agree wholeheartedly at the expert layering of plotlines and mythology in this show.

  • Emilee

    I totally went in the other direction as you guys in regard to Jason being Alec’s father. It was very interesting to hear you guys say that it would be just “too easy” for that to be the case. I did admit in my blog post that I’ll be a little embarrassed if I turn out to be wrong, because of how hard core I attacked it, but one can’t help but speculate! There aren’t many non-married people who quarrel in the way Ann and Jason did in Alec’s flashback, and the perspective of the camera came from an angle where you might think that Alec was huddled on the stairwell, listening to his parents fighting. I don’t know. Now I’m really second guessing myself.

    As for Alec not recognizing Jason, it almost looked like he did, or at least that Jason struck a familiar cord with him. It would definitely depend on how young Alec was when his dad left the picture, as to whether either man recognizes the other. Undoubtedly it would provide for heavy complications… like… the name Sadler and all. Between the future and the past, if Jason chose the name Sadler or came back to 1992 with it, how does he accomodate for the fact he just fathered the soon-to-be most powerful man in the world? It makes my head spin. Terminator, anyone?

    Anyway, just funny that I definitely ran away with the Jason-is-Alec’s-father idea and y’all pooh-poohed it. :) Regardless of who he is, the fact that Jason knew Alec’s mom all those years ago will present some interesting scenarios for the characters in the future.

    • Continuum Podcast

      I admit my first thought when watching the episode was that Jason was Alec’s father, but I couldn’t wrap my head around the causality problems. It could be that we’re being naive and rejecting the idea unfairly. But I can’t shake the idea that we were SUPPOSED to believe Jason is Alec’s father… that they’re laying a trap in order to pull the rug out from under us later. Dave and I may end up with egg on our faces.

  • Jasper Verbon

    Completely agree with the “section 6 how long will it last?” I thought it was a bit weak that Carlos believed Kiera was able to plant the tracking signal without even leaving the car – and Kiera just randomly running in after Sonya… These close calls seem like sloppy writing but I’ll forgive it :p Carlos is pretty oblivious now, but with the way Kiera is cowboying around he will find out soon.

    I also agree that the jump Sonya made from ‘being in bed with dogs’ to going back the Kagame way was a bit too sudden and unbelievable. I honestly don’t know what to expect though, Travis’ method might work now (he’s basically steamrolling over all the criminals) and he’s basically encouraging the gangs to do what the VPD least suspect it might last longer than you predicted…

    The whole time travel logic is starting to catch up to me, whatever anyone does now might be the motions required to reach the future future = so the issue of ‘free will’ as Kellogg puts it is pretty confusing XD

    Also about Jason showing up in Alec’s Flash trip; I think it’s important that we got the explanation that he might only see what he wants to (he saw Jason earlier that day) – it’s all possible that Alec will be completely misguided…

    • Continuum Podcast

      That certainly is one of the dangers – the farther into the series we get, the more likely changes – intentional or not – will be affected. The question I have is, will the flashbacks start to contain changed information? Or will they remain unspoiled images of the future as it was before the time travelers made their journey?

  • Kernel Thai

    Freelancer and the telescope. I dont think that was a throw away line by Jason. The name Mr Escher likely refers to a Dutch graphics artist M C Escher whose mathematically inspired art often depicts seemingly impossible visuals. The reference is likely laying the groundwork for Mr. Escher be M C Escher.

    Magda Apanowics … my suspicious side tell me she is a plant. She seemed to be openly flirty with Alec which makes me think someone (Gardner? Escher?) is trying to get someone close to Alec.

    My nitpick would be the article about the drug manufacturers colluding to suppress cures. While the premise is believable, how exactly does that information get verified. Sure, they lied about them meeting but that’s still an impossibly huge step from them admitting what they were meeting about. At what point would any company ever admit that? At what point would such a heinous thing be widely enough known that it could even be leaked? This was a riff on the oil company scandal from season one where the corporate big wig had to have her life threatened with a bomb to get her to confess, but much less believable. I can think of a hundred fake reasons for that meeting and so could they.

    • Continuum Podcast

      I never know what to believe from Jason. As for Mr. Escher, I think the pseudonym is more an homage to the artist because of time travel being such a topsy-turvy concept where things loop back on themselves.

      I agree with you about Magda’s character. She’s a bit too overt to be anything other than a plant. Not that Alec isn’t a looker, but her approach was a tad obvious.

      I see your point about the explosion not being able to full expose what the drug companies were up to. One possible explanation could be that, once the executives were out of the way, whistleblowers felt more comfortable to come forward. But they didn’t say that, so that’s just speculation. Valid nitpick.

      • Kernel Thai

        Investigators may have found incriminating stuff in the wreckage. But again, it seems like the kind of vile business where nothing is written down, no records r kept and only a few people know expressly to avoid whistle blowers.

  • Steve Barnett

    I know I am late to posting because I have been holding off on listening to the podcasts until I get towatchthe episodes here in the US. Is Jason Alec’s father? At what age was Alec when his father ‘die’ or just leave the picture? I find it hard to believe that he wouldn’t recognize his father on the street unless he disappeared before Alec was old enough to really interact with him.

    • Continuum Podcast

      That’s definitely an ongoing debate, Steve. The mystery surrounding the identity and circumstances of death of Alec’s father has been one of the most understated questions in the whole series.

  • kathrynk

    I’m trying to catch up with you guys, have listened to all the podcasts after each episode. Found you serendipitously when googling Nerdist podcast coverage. Thankfully yours popped up, such a fantastic alternative! I messed up by catching a couple of late season 2 shows, so I kinda know a few things I shouldn’t. I say kinda, cause it’s out of context and confusing. Really need to watch episodes as intended, eat your vegs, etc. But this mistake does bring a brought a fun perspective hearing your predictions, etc.
    My only disagreements with you thus far regard characters. I don’t mind Alec still being in a moody place — seems consistent with what his character is grappling with plus his age. I wouldn’t expect him to move out of that for awhile. I think Sonya’s ambivalence is just that, as demonstrated by her inability to finish the job with Travis. She’s deeply emotionally conflicted.
    Re. Kellog, you like to compare him to Baltar. I get that with the duplicity and self-interest, but without the deep secret and shame motivating Kellog, (as it does Baltar), seems very different to me. Tho he did show more of his true colors when he couldn’t even relate to Alec’s concern about what kind of person he becomes. Wow.
    I’ve been very impressed with this show, and it’s getting better. Thanks for promoting it, fueling my interest, and supplying that “water cooler conversation” need!

    • Continuum Podcast

      Always love it when someone finds us after all this time – welcome, Kathryn! Kellog was definitely more Baltar-like in Season 1 than in Season 2. I agree with you about Alec… I think it made more sense as time went on. Glad we could be at your water cooler! :)

  • Kara420

    In this episode there’s another exchange which supports my theory that Kiera’s nightmare in the futuristic psych ward was an actual memory.

    Kiera says, “:We both sound like we’re off our meds.” Jason says, “:You call them on it, they';ll just say you’re crazy.” Then later he says, “One day you’re going to wake up and wonder if any of it ever happened.”:

    I’d like to also point out that this is the same conversation when Jason assumes Kiera wants to catch a ride home with one of the freelancers. I will refer back to this point in the appropriate comment thread for the episode where this matters.